Actually, I think the firing squad - if it's done right - is probably more humane than the electric chair. The guillotine is probably the most humane method of execution, as gruesome as it seems. I think the most humane method of execution would be to suddenly and completely crush the victims entire head flat as a pancake in one sudden impact - at explosive speed - by a large, heavy metal cylinder. The victim will lose consciousness instantly without feeling a thing.
Island Man
JoinedPosts by Island Man
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Utah to bring back firing squads
by cofty inare parts of the usa in a different century from europe?.
why don't they just stone them to death?.
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Stone Demon in Watchtower Mag (SUBLIMINAL IMAGE)
by artcritic inhave a look at this new subliminal image from the mag of .
spam link removed.
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Island Man
It's OPs like this that will cause JWs to have cause to say that "apostates" are "mentally diseased". -
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How is Joe Publisher reacting to all the TV coverage on the abuse cases?
by 4thgen inplease pardon if this a repeated topic.
i have had virtually no contact with any witnesses beside my mother for the past few years.
she watches tv constantly and claims she has never seen anything on the watchtower abuse cases.
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Island Man
I would guess that 95% of them are completely unaware.
No way! Come on, are you kidding me? It's way more than 95%!
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Island Man
My brain controls my mind. In turn, my environment controls my brain. In turn, my environment is controlled, ultimately, by quantum mechanics. In turn, so far as I know, quantum mechanics just is. The quantum level contains the "pixels" of reality, the ultimate "substance" of reality itself. -
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Mind control.
by New day inin a recent thread someone mentioned that the wtbts uses mind control techniques.
do you think this is a conscious ploy?
if it is it would mean that the leaders of my religion (i am still an active jw) set out consciously to control people.
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Island Man
In a recent thread someone mentioned that the WTBTS uses mind control techniques. Do you think this is a conscious ploy?
Yes, I think it is deliberate.
Think of the great effort that goes into producing the graphical illustrations for the publications. Every detail in those images are carefully planned to convey the right message with exactly the right nuances to match the points made in the paragraphs. Think of the great emphasis that is placed on the message behind these graphical illustrations with paragraph questions referring to those images. The emphasis Watchtower places on emotive imagery is very reminiscent of the emphasis that communist Russia placed on propagandistic emotive political imagery. Think of the very predictable, almost formulaic writing style of Watchtower study articles - almost like they're using a writing template where the language structure remains the same with only the contents changing. Think of Watchtower's teaching method of spoon-feeding the followers one paragraph at a time, with exactly what they want them to think - even providing the very questions that they think the reader should ask along with the answers. Think of the fact that Watchtower discourages independent thinking and higher education. Think of the fact that Watchtower has published an Awake magazine on the subject of propaganda techniques, showing that they are aware of these techniques; and think of the fact that these very same techniques can be seen in Watchtower literature!
But I also think that they rationalize their use of mind control techniques as being a positive thing rather than negative. They probably use some other euphemistic term to refer to their practices rather than "mind control". As an example of what I mean, last month (or the month before) a member of the governing body, on the monthly jw broadcast program spoke about critics' claims that JWs are brainwashed. Rather than outright deny the claim, he essentially set about playing word games by choosing more euphemistic language and by putting a positive spin on the term brainwashing saying that it means having the mind cleaned from the filth of Satan's world. He really did not deny that JWs are brainwashed, but instead he was essentially saying: 'what out critics refer to as brainwashing is what we see as having our minds cleansed from the contaminating influences of this world'.
I think it's possible that Watchtower similarly justifies its use of mind control techniques and propaganda. In their own reasoning they're probably saying: 'what the world sees as mind control and propaganda, we see as wholesome teaching methods to guide our thinking into conformity with Jehovah's will and direction'. So I think they use those techniques deliberately but are probably deluded enough to rationalize it as a positive thing for the benefit of the brothers.
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what is the best line to say to a JW handing you an invite to the memorial
by nonjwspouse ini have some ideas, but want more to choose from..
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Island Man
What I find very striking about this year's invitation is its very unscriptural mode of appealing to the public. The invitation says:
"Millions will attend. Will you?"
This statement is an appeal to popularity. It is exploiting the "worldly" trait of "following after the crowd" to convince people to attend. By contrast, the bible shows that the scriptural means of getting people to attend is to highlight the great love Jesus showed by dying for sin:
(2 Corinthians 5:14, 15) . . .For the love the Christ has compels us, because this is what we have judged, that one man died for all; so, then, all had died; 15 and he died for all that those who live might live no longer for themselves, but for him who died for them and was raised up.
So given that the fallacy of appealing to popularity is a "worldly" trait often used by satan's commercial system when advertising, how could a scriptural organization which is supposed to be no part of the world be using such a shallow, fallacious, worldly tactic? It's proof positive that Watchtower is not really concerned with true spirituality. All they're concerned with is growing member$hip and they're willing to stoop to such tactics to do it.
Have you also noticed how the memorial of Jesus' death has now become a tool for recruitment? How obscene! From the bible it is clear that the memorial is to be all about Jesus' sacrifice and what it means and should not be cheapened by obscenely using it as a recruitment tool.
So here's how I would respond to getting the invitation:" 'Millions will attend. Will you?' Why does your invitation say that? Isn't that a fallacious appeal to popularity? Should the fact that millions attend, really influence my decision to attend? I would have to be a really shallow person to do something just to follow the crowd. So the fact that your organization printed that must mean that it is appealing to shallow people. I'm not a shallow person who follows after the crowd therefore your invitation is not for me. Furthermore, any organization professing to be christian and which would stoop to using such a tactic to attract people to the Lord's Evening Meal is definitely not the kind of organization I would want to have any dealings with."
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Dialogue regarding blood between an active elder in the United States and the governing body on the subject of blood transfusions.
by wannaexit inthis type of correspondence between a rank and file member and a governing body member is unheard of today.
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http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/blood_-_jensen_letters.html.
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Island Man
Very long read. But very interesting. -
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Anyone else like Radiohead?
by LoveUniHateExams inover the past couple of weeks, i've discovered the 'alternative rock group' radiohead.
of course, i've known of their name for years and years but never, until recently, bothered to check out their music.
i'm also quite a big fan of damon albarn and admire him not only for his substantial musical output but also for the different 'feel' to his songs - oasis, in contrast, seem to have just one beatles-esque style.
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Island Man
"Creep" is one of my faves!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFkzRNyygfk
I love the way the electric guitar soloist "jump starts" his guitar twice (like pulling the startup cord on a lawn mower twice before it finally starts) before launching into his climactic run.
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Zone visit meeting Australasia region 7th march...
by stuckinarut2 ini'm sitting here now going insane with this program of fear, obligation and guilt!.
oh man....seriously mind numbing.. i can't bring myself to share too much of it all now.... but i just want to get out...... tell you all more soon about the manipulative trash..... .
anyone else go to this?
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Island Man
Here's a transcript of the higher education rant portion of the recent branch visit talk given at one of the branches in the Caribbean. The theme of the talk was "Know where you are headed.":
"Isaiah chapter 2 and verse number 3:
"And many peoples will go and say: Come. Let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the god of Jacob, and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For law will go out of Zion, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem."
Instructed in God's ways - that's what divine education is all about. And divine education is being fulfilled with millions today being instructed by Jehovah. And the theocratic schools that Jehovah's organization operates today are designed to provide additional education for each one of us. so that we can not only be successful in our service to God, but divine education also makes it possible for us to exist and have a comfortable standard of living even in this wicked system of things. It's amazing that divine education accomplishes both. Secular education does not accomplish both! Secular education will teach you how to make money, how to live, how to whatever, like the rest of the world is doing but it's *not* going to teach you about God.
Divine education will also teach you how to live and how to enjoy and how to manage whatever it is that you have. But more importantly, it teaches you about Jehovah. Divine education is superior to any education that this world has to offer.
Really, I was just thinking about this point: Now brother and sister [REDACTED] and sister [REDACTED] and I, have the privilege to be in the 32nd class of the school for branch committee members and their wives, last year September - October. Now hear me as I ask you: Which organization in this world is going to send people our age to school? Who would? - Look at us!... And yet the organization paid our way to school. And we benefited from it. It's true we had some of the 35 and 40 year olds in our class but we tried to keep up [unintelligible] we tried our best. And they didn't have any mercy or pity on us. They didn't say because you're in a certain decade of life that you don't have to read all of these things:"No that's only for the 45 year olds, they have to read all of these Watchtowers, all of this part of the Insight, all of this part of All publications, but you don't have to read all that because you're of a certain decade ..."
No, no, no. We had the same homework assignments, we had as many assignments as anybody else in the class. And the organization *sent* us to school. There's no where else that's going to happen!
Divine education keeps on teaching us throughout our lives. It shows us how to live now. It is so practical, brothers! They sent me a uh ... the part of an uh ... experience from a professor - retired lecturer at the University of Cape Coast in Ghana in West Africa. And this someone says something like uh:
"The teaching and training given to the Jehovah's Witnesses is richer than what university education provides."
And I like what he says here that um:
"People with divine education..."that's my term now: 'divine education' - but he says we:
"are taught how to analyze critical issues even better than those trained through the formal education system."
That's one of the arguments sometimes made for higher education - it teaches you how to think so even if you can't get a job according to the course that you have taken or [unintelligible] the degree that you have and you have to settle for less but at least in this university you learned how to think... The Lord's people have been learning to think since you came into the world - since the time that your parents had you on their knee they've been teaching you how to think. You come up in the theocratic ministry school you learn how to think, you learn how to read things, you learn how to analyse things, you learn how to put things together, you learn how to present things. The Lord's organization teaches us all that, this divine education.
A few years back in the country of Liberia in West Africa, the brothers - the branch - arranged a meeting with the President of the country. And the idea was to present first hand to the president, provide first hand knowledge of some of our doctrines, our beliefs, issues of neutrality and things like that so that he would have a very clear picture about what we understand and what we believe. One of the persons making a presentation was a local brother who had a secondary school education. He made his presentation and after that presentation the president called him to the side and he said: "which university did you attend?" He said: "the theocratic ministry school." So impressive. The putting together of the material, the analysis, the arguments, the presentation - he did very well there. It's divine education. Jehovah's organization teaches us that. And with that thinking ability, with this capacity that we've gleaned from the theocratic ministry school and other schools we can handle any situation in the world. We can learn anything. We can have the desire to learn those things - especially if they advance kingdom interests. Divine education.
Yeah but, its true we understand that parents want their children to be well educated. They want their children to enjoy a happy life now and in the future. Some parents feel that higher education is absolutely necessary if my boy, my daughter is to get a desirable job, earning sufficient funds to care for future needs. Some think that it is impossible to be acceptably employed without first obtaining higher education. Some feel that the faithful and discreet slave just does not know what the reality is on the ground here in my congregation, in my town. When the faithful slave talks about higher education and its issues and the idea of employment, they are just not with it. That works in Brooklyn in Patterson ... but it does not work here. The reality is here where I live. Actually, brothers, the reality is worldwide. And what is the reality? What is the real life? What is the reality of this situation with employment and education and so forth? Think about it.
One newspaper commenting on a report done on education some years back had this to say that:
"In many countries there is an acute need, not for university graduates, but for people to work in the trades and services area."
It said that:
"70% of the [unintelligible but sounds like "wers"] in the coming decades will not need a 4 year college degree, but rather an associate degree from a community college or some kind of technical certificate."
Then I start to ask myself: Ok this is a worldly survey they don't have any clue what we're talking about as far as education is concerned, they're looking at it from their perspective they're in the business of education and analyzing what takes place and this is what they say this is where the jobs will be - 70% of the jobs, it says, will be in the trades and services. And I wonder: Can our children possibly find gainful, suitable, acceptable employment in that 70%? Or must they be in the upper 30% where they now have to become the CEOs or the administrators of huge organizations and companies - is that where they have to be in order to serve God? Really - that they won't be able to make it in the 70%? That's the reality. Think about it.
Now we, we came to [REDACTED] a few years ago as I mentioned and the branch office is up on that hill there, that beautiful hill there and there was an open space on the right hand side. But now today we find that they're building some houses on that plot that was there, so the branch office is going to have neighbors right up close to them on the fence. Now the architect who designed those houses, or the engineer who laid out the structural interior for those houses, or the mechanical engineer who laid out where the pipes go and that kind of stuff, flushing the toilets and bringing cold water here and hot water there - is that the fellow who is on the site building that house? Is that the architect that you see actually lay the block and putting the cement there so that his blocks hold together? Is it the mechanical engineer who is putting in this pipe and tightening it up so that it doesn't leak? Who's doing the work? People in the trades! The architect can have the most beautiful concept of things and he has this PHD and he's all ethereal and he has all of these glorious, grandiose ideas and schemes and he puts them down on a piece of paper and he says now this will be built!
"No, no, no, we don't have any masons. No, no, no, we don't have any carp... you have to go out there..."
"What, me?!"
He's not going to go out there and build this thing. That's the reality, brothers. You cannot run a huge organization. You cannot run a country. You cannot run anything if everybody has a PHD! Who's going to do the work? He's going to say:
"No, no, no, that work is too beneath me"Is it not a rewarding work? Will it not pay the bills? Will it not even allow our children enough income so that they can contribute to the world wide work and the advancement of kingdom interests? Definitely so. That's the real world. That's real life. We need people. What did brother [REDACTED] say - that they're looking to source people with some skills, some construction skills. We come to our kingdom hall we sit down its all nice and comfy, but somebody had to know what he was doing, somebody had to put the blocks in the right place. Somebody had to make sure that the air conditioning was all connected together properly. Trades. Skills in the trades. Skills in the services - that's what the experts say will be need going forward. Can our children find something in there?
What about this aspect of the math? Another worldly study - because we're not studying that, are we? You know, you don't get a Watchtower study about how people get jobs - it was a worldly study. It says:
"nearly half are overqualified for their jobs."
Now brothers that is a terrible thing - to be overqualified for a job. Can you imagine somebody being satisfied if he thinks he should be earning 100,000 dollars a year but there is no job for whatever degree he has? - and that's the other thing higher education doesn't really focus on what the needs are. It focuses on getting a degree. So here you are you think you should be making 100,000 dollars a year, you can't find a job that pays 100,000 dollars a year. Are you going to be satisfied with 50,000? Well if you don't make 50,000 you'll probably say ok i'll be satisfied with that. I knew a brother one time, many years ago the watchtower had an article about a brother who was quite well to do and he uh, in those days 25,000 US dollars was quite a good salary and he turned down this job of 25,000 so he could spend more time in the ministry. Now I was visiting a congregation when the watchtower was studied that week and another brother standing over here said:
"Me? I'd turn that down too! Im not working for 25,000. you must be crazy!"
Over-qualification breeds dissatisfaction. It hits the human being right in the middle of his pride and he doesn't like that.
"I should be here. Am I going to stoop to take one down? Nah uh uh"
Maybe if someone gets down to the last dollar in his pocket he might decide:
"Ok I'll try this for a few days - at least put some bread on the table."
But he's not happy about it. He doesn't throw himself into the work because he shouldn't be there. Over-qualification is a sad thing and yet, it is a reality brothers. Think about it, talk to people about it. You'll see. Its a reality. Over-qualification is there because there are no jobs for people in training. And that is a universal issue. It is not just a Patterson or Brooklyn issue.
But sometimes people say well education is free so why not? Higher education is free so why not? If you saw the JW broadcast for January and you saw the interview with the brother, the lawyer - one of the strong points he makes about higher education is the battle for the mind. When you are filled with the ideas and the thoughts as to how great you are, and you are going to be the Jesus Christ of this world, the savior of all mankind. When that thinking takes root here in the mind, what kind of choices will you make? What kind of decisions will you make? Will you really know where you are headed and where you are going? Think about it brothers. Give consideration to the real world - not what is imagined, not what is propagated - for what actually takes place on the ground. Give consideration. And I am personally convinced that if you give consideration to the reality of life in this system of things, you parents and you young ones will see the wisdom of the direction and the guidance we receive from the faithful slave. Where are you headed?"
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Zone visit meeting Australasia region 7th march...
by stuckinarut2 ini'm sitting here now going insane with this program of fear, obligation and guilt!.
oh man....seriously mind numbing.. i can't bring myself to share too much of it all now.... but i just want to get out...... tell you all more soon about the manipulative trash..... .
anyone else go to this?
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Island Man
There was one in the Caribbean recently that I attended. The branch visitor was from the Kenya branch. In his talk he went on a long rant against higher education. I have it all recorded.